AILSA CHANG, HOST:
A federal judge today heard a new challenge to an effort to put President Trump's name back on The Kennedy Center. Earlier this year, the same judge ruled that only Congress can rename the institution. Now, The Kennedy Center Board says that it is not renaming the building but it does want to put Trump's name back on the facade to recognize him for fundraising and making renovations. Well, today, the judge questioned that plan, but he also raised concerns about whether he has the authority to stop the plan while his earlier ruling is being appealed. Democratic Representative Joyce Beatty of Ohio is challenging that plan in court and joins us now. Welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
JOYCE BEATTY: Hi, and thank you.
CHANG: OK, so just to recap, the judge we're talking about here has already ruled that The Kennedy Center cannot be renamed for President Trump, but the board says it's not doing that. It only wants to put an inscription on the building that reads, restored and renovated by President Donald J. Trump. Tell us why even that inscription violates the law, in your opinion.
BEATTY: Well, certainly, it does violate the law because it is unlawful. The law is very clear that you cannot change what Congress has already passed. But here's the other thing about it. Think about what you just read, past tense - restored, past tense for the future, and renovated. So when the judge asked about that and said it didn't make sense because he asked about the dollars that would be raised, and then Trump's own attorneys said that amount was zero. So how can you say what you've done for the future when you've not raised any money?
But the bottom line is it was a way to try to work around the law. And that's just what they were trying to do today on every issue that came up. They didn't, in my opinion, have clear answers to address it. They put a rush on a September the 8 date that they could start doing the work. And they put that out before we got to court.
CHANG: Let's talk about one argument from the Justice Department.
BEATTY: Yes.
CHANG: They say if the board cannot recognize Trump by naming him on the facade, then donors would walk away, renovations would stop, and The Kennedy Center would be left in such bad shape that it would have to be demolished. What do you make of that argument?
BEATTY: Well, I think that Donald Trump lost. We've been before several judges. They all voted, rendered a decision unanimously at the Washington District Court, in federal court. I think it's like a kid throwing a tantrum. You know, I don't get what I want, then I'm just going to throw a fit. But here's the thing why we have to take this seriously. This is the same man that said, I'm just going to renovate the ballroom in the East Wing. And the next thing we discovered was the Rose Garden was gone. He's torn down everything.
CHANG: Well, that's the thing, Congresswoman. While, all of this is playing out in court, what actually prevents President Trump, practically speaking, from moving ahead with demolition of, say, The Kennedy Center in the same way that, as you pointed out, he demolished the East Wing of the White House before legal challenges could stop him? What prevents Trump from doing the same thing here?
BEATTY: Well, I think that - I think you just said the difference. We, early on, went to court. Keep in mind, this started back in December of 2025, and we've been victorious, and he has not done the things that he said. There is a 40-some member board - in his own words, some of the wealthiest people in the country. Now let me tell you - they don't run their businesses like this, and their names and votes are on all of these documents. So I think that has helped us. I think they are his handpicked cronies who are carrying out his mission of wanting to renovate it and to restore it and bring it back. But I don't think he felt that there would be a fight like he's in now. And that's just something that Donald Trump does not deal well with, you know, losing. And he's been losing, in this case. And the real difference...
CHANG: Well, big picture - big picture, in your court filing, you call all of this a breathtaking assault on the rule of law.
BEATTY: It is.
CHANG: Explain - what do you think is at stake here, beyond Trump's name being on The Kennedy Center?
BEATTY: Well, I think it is a great challenge against the law. Think about it. He is trying to go up against, defy a federal judge, defy the Congress. The Congress has in law that he cannot do what he's doing. But this is Donald - this is classic Donald Trump. But I think what's different is there has been a lawsuit, and we have prevailed, not once but twice. And now he has Secretary Lutnick sitting in the board meetings. He was in court today. And so I think that's a sign of somebody being a little worried - that he would take his time to sit - we were in there for more than two hours - the fact that Donald Trump was on our board meeting on August the 13, which was a little over two hours. Now, think about it.
CHANG: All right.
BEATTY: This is the president of the United States.
CHANG: I would love to think about it some more but, unfortunately, we have...
BEATTY: I know. Our time's up.
CHANG: ...To wrap this up right now.
BEATTY: But thank you.
CHANG: Congresswoman Joyce Beatty of Ohio, thank you so much for joining us today.
BEATTY: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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