JOEL ROSE, HOST:
This week, we talked a lot about the late Dolly Parton. She was the rare crossover star. After launching a legendary career in music, she found success on the big screen, too, in films like "9 To 5"...
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "9 TO 5")
DOLLY PARTON: (As Doralee Rhodes) Look, I've been straight with you from the first day I got here, and I put up with all your pinching and staring and chasing me around the desk 'cause I need this job, but this is the last straw.
ROSE: ...And "Steel Magnolias."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "STEEL MAGNOLIAS")
PARTON: (As Truvy Jones) Oh, sweetheart, don't. Please don't cry, or I will too. I have a strict policy that nobody cries alone in my presence.
ROSE: Many singers or musicians set their eyes on movie stardom. Some of them pull it off, and some of them don't. So for this week's Cineplexity, we wanted to take a look at who has made that leap successfully and try to answer how they did it. Joining me this week is Marc Rivers, who produces our Cineplexity segments, and someone who thinks a lot about music and movies, NPR's Stephen Thompson, host of Pop Culture Happy Hour. Welcome to you both.
MARC RIVERS, BYLINE: Good to be with you guys.
STEPHEN THOMPSON, BYLINE: Thanks for having me.
ROSE: Stephen, let's start with you. Give us a rundown of some of the best-known examples of singing stars who built a successful career in Hollywood too. And at this point, I should say, this is a pretty long list, right?
THOMPSON: Yeah, this is a list that dates back about as far as popular music or movies with sound, right? I mean, these crossovers have been going on for generations. We could talk about Elvis. We could talk about Frank Sinatra.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE")
FRANK SINATRA: (As Major Bennett Marco) We're busting up the joint. We're tearing out all the wires. We're busting it up so good. All the queen's horses and all the queen's men will never put old Raymond back together again.
THOMPSON: So you could talk about Cher winning an Oscar for "Moonstruck" in the '80s.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "MOONSTRUCK")
CHER: (As Loretta Castorini) All right, the engagement is off.
DANNY AIELLO: (As Mr. Johnny Cammareri) In time, you will see that this is the best thing.
CHER: (As Loretta Castorini) In time, you'll drop dead, and I'll come to your funeral in a red dress.
THOMPSON: You can talk about Queen Latifah, and Ice Cube and Ice-T.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "SURVIVING THE GAME")
ICE-T: (As Mason) Let me get this straight. You guys come up here, hunt and kill animals, and that's therapy.
RUTGER HAUER: (As Burns) It works.
THOMPSON: And you can talk right up to and through the present day, where a lot of the biggest pop stars in the world, you know, kind of received a lot of training across different media, in part because so much of popular music is about performing and connecting and knowing where to stand. So this has been going on really as long as these media have existed.
RIVERS: Yeah. And I would say, also, when you think about stars like Bing Crosby, who has an Oscar, you know, Elvis, who does not have an Oscar...
THOMPSON: Sure.
RIVERS: ...And Doris Day - folks like that, you know, they were IP before we were even talking about IP, right?
THOMPSON: Sure.
RIVERS: They were their own brands. And you think about today in a time when studios are really struggling to figure out just how to put audiences into the movie theaters, you know, I think that's why you see so many musicians and singers and - showing up in films, like Alana Haim from the pop rock band Haim. She was in the Robert Patson and Zendaya-led dark comedy "The Drama" from this year.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE DRAMA")
ALANA HAIM: (As Rachel) I think you guys are great for each other. I wish you all the best. To the happy, carefree couple.
RIVERS: Or someone like Travis Scott, who plays the Bard in Christopher Nolan's "The Odyssey."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE ODYSSEY")
TRAVIS SCOTT: (As Bard) A face.
(SOUNDBITE OF BANGING)
SCOTT: (As Bard) A fleet.
RIVERS: Charli xcx is in three A24 projects, including one that's a mockumentary about herself.
THOMPSON: Yep.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE MOMENT")
CHARLI XCX: (As Charli xcx) Don't you just think the whole, like, keep having a brat summer thing is bit cringe?
ISAAC POWELL: (As Lloyd) I mean, it's all cringe.
RIVERS: So, you know, you just have all these stars now getting into movies because, you know, I think there's this hope that they bring their fanbases to the movie theaters, also.
ROSE: At the other end of the spectrum, are there any famous cases of it all going horribly wrong?
RIVERS: Oof. Take your pick.
(LAUGHTER)
RIVERS: I mean, one of the movies that comes to mind for me from 2001, "Glitter" with Mariah Carey.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "GLITTER")
MAX BEESLEY: (As Julian Dice) Look, what's the biggest dream you'll ever have?
MARIAH CAREY: (As Billie Frank) I don't know.
BEESLEY: (As Julian Dice) How about playing Madison Square Garden?
CAREY: (As Billie Frank, laughing) Yeah, right.
RIVERS: That was kind of a notorious bomb for her. "From Justin To Kelly," which is kind of like a - this starring Kelly Clarkson, who had just recently come off winning "American Idol."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FOREVER PART OF ME")
JUSTIN GUARINI: (As Justin, singing) It's gettin' right under my skin.
KELLY CLARKSON: (As Kelly, singing) Right under my skin.
GUARINI: (As Justin, singing) I don't know where to begin.
CLARKSON: (As Kelly, singing) Would I look the fool?
GUARINI: (As Justin, singing) Should I play it cool?
THOMPSON: Oh, that is some Justin Guarini erasure (laughter).
RIVERS: I mean, listen, listen - all respect to him. They were trying to cash in on the buzz around "American Idol" at that time, but it is one of the worst musicals or rom-coms you will ever see. And I think that - I think what happens, too, with a singer-songwriter trying to get to film is I think the industry tends to be a little more merciless when it comes to their flops.
THOMPSON: Sure.
RIVERS: It's almost like they say, all right, you tried it, you failed. Now get back to your lane. Get back to where you belong, you know? Like, I feel like they don't tend to give you too many times at bat. I mean, think about Lady Gaga in "The Star Is Born" (ph) from 2018.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "A STAR IS BORN")
LADY GAGA: (As Ally) I don't sing my own songs.
BRADLEY COOPER: (As Jack) Why?
LADY GAGA: (As Ally) I just don't feel comfortable.
RIVERS: Got an Oscar nomination, and we thought, oh, here is someone who might cross over in this - and she could just do this, also showing up in "American Horror Story." Then she's in "House Of Gucci," a financial and critical debacle, and then the even more awful Joker sequel. And now we're wondering, well, what happened to Lady Gaga? So I think it's, like, quick to rise and also quick to fall.
THOMPSON: Yeah, I think the long knives come out with critics and with audiences when, you know, pop stars fail on the big screen. And I think, you know, it all ties into this idea I think a lot of people have that there's hubris...
RIVERS: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...In this casting, right?
RIVERS: Yeah.
THOMPSON: There's this sense like, oh, you're a big pop star, and now you think you're going to be a big movie star? And I think people are quicker to dismiss someone who kind of fails on the big screen, but it doesn't mean that Lady Gaga can't act. Hell, it doesn't even mean that Kelly Clarkson can't act, right? Like, we haven't seen a ton of Kelly Clarkson acting. She's very charming.
RIVERS: I still don't know what else she can do.
THOMPSON: She's...
RIVERS: We have not seen the full potential of Kelly Clarkson.
THOMPSON: ...Very charming and very charismatic, and there's certainly - I can absolutely see her succeeding in roles. So sometimes it's just a matter of bad luck or...
RIVERS: Yeah.
THOMPSON: ...Somebody kind of glomming onto a project that is designed to cash in on their success.
ROSE: Was anybody actually better as an actor than they were as a singer or a rapper?
RIVERS: Top choice for me, honestly, is, I think, maybe the most significant musician and actor of our time, Will Smith. You know, this is someone who won the first Grammy for a rap performance with "Parents Just Don't Understand" in 1989...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PARENTS JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND")
FRESH PRINCE: (Rapping) So to you other kids all across the land, there's no need to argue. Parents just don't understand.
RIVERS: ...Then kind of honed his acting craft in "Fresh Prince Of Bel-Air," one of the most important Black sitcoms in the '90s. And that show doesn't even end before he really goes supernova in "Bad Boys" and then, in 1996, "Independence Day."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "INDEPENDENCE DAY")
WILL SMITH: (As Capt. Steven Hiller, yelling) Look at you. Ship all banged up. Who's the man, huh? Who's the man?
RIVERS: Then he is just Mr. Blockbuster for the next, like, decade and a half.
ROSE: But he's like a real movie star.
RIVERS: But he's...
ROSE: I think (ph).
THOMPSON: Oh, yeah.
ROSE: Right?
RIVERS: Genuine movie star - he was nicknamed Mr. 100 Million at a certain point because he had, I think, eight consecutive movies that made over $100 million at the box office.
THOMPSON: The other name that jumps immediately to mind as somebody who is greatly surpassed in quality in terms of work as an actor versus work as a singer-slash-rapper would be Mark Wahlberg.
RIVERS: Ooh, that's a good choice.
ROSE: Yeah.
THOMPSON: You know, Mark Wahlberg first, you know, came to our attention through his seminal work in Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch...
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "GOOD VIBRATIONS")
MARKY MARK: (Rapping) Yo, it's about that time to bring forth the rhythm and the rhyme.
THOMPSON: ...And has now been a very, very successful and popular working actor for decades. He's been nominated for an Oscar. He, you know, continues to be kind of a headliner. I would consider him basically an A-list actor at this point, and I don't think anybody would consider Mark Wahlberg an A-list singer.
(LAUGHTER)
ROSE: Are there any singers or musicians who are working today and pivoting to movies today that you think could have prominent careers on the big screen?
RIVERS: My biggest one - I'm going to cheat a little bit 'cause she's already kind of gotten wide acclaim already - is Teyana Taylor. She's a Grammy nominee. She's worked with Jay-Z. She's worked with the artist formerly known as Kanye West. But she broke out in this year's best picture winner, "One Battle After Another," and got an Oscar nomination for it, as well.
ROSE: And totally deserved it - she's (inaudible).
RIVERS: Totally deserved it, you know, she owns the first 30 minutes of this movie.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "ONE BATTLE AFTER ANOTHER")
TEYANA TAYLOR: (As Perfidia) My name is Perfidia Beverly Hills, and this is a declaration of war. You didn't count on me. You didn't count on my fight.
RIVERS: She's definitely the most controversial and hotly debated character in that film. But when you're watching, she just seems to transcend all the discourse. Like, she's just such a force in this film, playing this revolutionary. This is the best running in a movie outside of a Tom Cruise film that I've seen.
THOMPSON: (Laughter).
RIVERS: Leo's character is the bomb maker, but she is the bomb in this movie, you know?
THOMPSON: The name that jumps to mind just from having watched her most recent videos is Phoebe Bridgers.
RIVERS: Ooh, OK.
THOMPSON: Phoebe Bridgers who's, you know, kind of leveled up with this incredible album called "Lost Weekend" - she's a creature of LA who I don't necessarily think of as an actress or an aspiring actress even though she has been one. You know, she's going to be doing some movie stuff coming up, and just her ability to kind of wordlessly convey emotion in her videos and on stage tells me that she has real potential as an actor.
ROSE: NPR's Stephen Thompson and Marc Rivers, thank you guys very much for this conversation. This was fun.
RIVERS: My pleasure.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF PHOEBE BRIDGERS SONG, "LIBERTY TREE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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