STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
State Department spokesman Tommy Pigott has been listening along with us. He is on the line. Good morning, sir.
TOMMY PIGOTT: Hey. Good morning.
INSKEEP: Welcome to the program. We heard Greg Myre describe exchanges of fire near the Strait of Hormuz. Of course, there's also action in Lebanon. Does this still count as a ceasefire?
PIGOTT: Well, look. Fundamentally, what we're seeing and what we've seen periodically is that the United States military is going to take action to defend our interests, defend our soldiers - defensive action. And that's what's key here - the Secretary of State recently describing that on a trip to Italy as well. I think that's a commonsense approach, having defensive action when necessary - of course, the president describing how the Iranian regime wants a deal. And he has been very clear. There's no secret what the president wants here from the very beginning - to prevent the Iranian regime from having a nuclear weapon. And he's been very transparent on that.
INSKEEP: And he believes...
PIGOTT: When it comes to...
INSKEEP: Go ahead. Go ahead.
PIGOTT: ...Lebanon, for example, we're - our role here, our goal here in Lebanon is to create the space for good-faith conversations to happen between the government of Lebanon and the government of Israel. In this context, we have seen Hezbollah launch hundreds of missile and rocket attacks trying to derail these conversations. So we're trying to see these conversations move forward, but we're not going to expect Israel to take attacks from a terrorist organization without any ability to defend itself.
INSKEEP: Got it. Lots to follow up on there. First, to your knowledge, how did the president respond to the document that he was apparently shown on Friday that included some possible terms for peace?
PIGOTT: Well, the president has been very clear he wants to see a good deal here, and the president - describing over the weekend that we are close to a circumstance, in his belief, of having a deal. But we're not going to have a deal that doesn't address some of the important parameters the president has outlined from the beginning. I think a distinction here in context is we're not going to have a situation where we have a similar deal to the JCPOA, which we view as giving the Iranian regime a roadmap to a nuclear weapon.
INSKEEP: Now, this is the Obama administration deal in 2015. Go on.
PIGOTT: Indeed. Yes. So we're going to make sure that this deal is a stronger deal than that - ensures the Iranian regime will not have a nuclear weapon - and the president being clear that we're going to see this objective be fulfilled one way or another. His preference has always been diplomacy, a diplomatic deal. He is a dealmaker, but he is going to see the objective fulfilled here that the Iranian regime cannot have a nuclear weapon.
INSKEEP: Is it your understanding that his answer was no to the terms that were laid before him on Friday?
PIGOTT: What I can say is that we don't have a deal yet - the president yet to announce that. And ultimately, the president's going to make sure that he sees this objective be fulfilled.
INSKEEP: Some Republicans a week ago were dismayed by the idea that the United States might, as part of this deal, unfreeze Iranian assets - in effect, a payment that could be billions of dollars. The president did discuss this as the week went on. So under what circumstances would the United States be willing to send money to Iran, if any?
PIGOTT: Well, the president being clear on Truth Social that there is going to be no exchange of money over the short term here, no imminent exchange of money. Ultimately, we have that Economic Fury package, a maximum-pressure campaign that has been implemented from the beginning of this administration. And that is something that has been added to continually, including in recent weeks, in order to make sure we're targeting the financing capabilities for the Iranian regime to continue their malign activities - terrorist proxies, weapons programs, etc. So we have those programs in place, and of course, all those programs are contingent on changes in behavior. So I can't predict the future, what will happen, but ultimately, we've been clear. The president's been very clear...
INSKEEP: Yeah.
PIGOTT: ...That he's - the Iranian regime's not going to have the finances they need to do malign activities.
(CROSSTALK)
INSKEEP: He said on Truth Social, no short-term conveyance of money to the Iranians. But he also said on Wednesday - this is at a Cabinet meeting, a quote from the president - "we have control of money that they claim is theirs. We'll keep control of that money. When they behave properly and when they do what's right, we'll let them have their money, but right now we're not doing that." It does sound like, in the longer term, that giving Iran some of these frozen assets would be part of the deal.
PIGOTT: Well, built into any sort of sanctions package, if you read through the release, Treasury state - you'll see that contingent for changes in sanctions policy are behavior. That's built into a lot of these policies. So again, that requires predicting the future. But ultimately, the president wants to make a deal. He wants to see peace throughout the region. He wants to see prosperity, including for the Iranian people. So if we're in a circumstance where the Iranian regime completely changes their behavior, you know, that's built into these sanctions policies. Ultimately, though, we're not going to see a similar deal to the JCPOA, which unlocked frozen funds for the Iranian regime and did not see the results necessary to actually prevent the Iranian regime from getting a nuclear weapon.
INSKEEP: Oh. Wait a minute. So they might unlock funds for the Iranian regime, but you would want stricter terms having to do with the nuclear program. That would be the difference, in your mind.
PIGOTT: Well, I think the difference would be - and I'm not saying necessarily that. What I'm saying here is that built into any sort of sanctions policy is the idea that change of behaviors could lead to changes in sanctions policy. That's built into any sanctions policy. But ultimately, we have that maximum-pressure campaign to stop malign activities, so any change in sanctions policy would be contingent on stopping malign activities.
INSKEEP: The president spoke over the weekend to Lara Trump on Fox News and talked a little bit about the nuclear terms. Let's listen to some of that.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: One guarantee that I have to have is that there will be no nuclear weapons. They've agreed to that. And it was very interesting. They originally said, we will not develop a nuclear weapon. I said, well, what happens if you buy a nuclear weapon? So now it says, we will not develop or in any way purchase a military weapon. That's a big difference.
INSKEEP: Tommy Pigott, I want to be clear. I've covered Iran for a long time. They always say, we never will have a nuclear weapon. They always say, we never want a nuclear weapon. And of course, the United States just doesn't find them credible, doesn't believe that. So here's what I want to know. What is the mechanism that's on the table that would make it believable that Iran would never have a nuclear weapon?
PIGOTT: Well, that's the process being worked through now, as the president indicated on Truth. Most of the deal that he is considering concerns mechanisms that would prevent the Iranian regime from having a nuclear weapon. That's a key part of this. Part of the discussion is also the nuclear dust, as the president calls it. What happens with that - the fact that we're going to see that destroyed? So there's mechanisms being worked through right now, the president again indicating we're close to a deal. But he's been very clear he's going to make sure that the Iranian regime cannot have a nuclear weapon.
INSKEEP: And you just don't know what the mechanism is for that? You can't give us any idea?
PIGOTT: Well, look. The president's discussed a lot of that. There's a whole lot of technicalities here regarding levels of enrichment, etc., etc., etc., that the president's spoken about very openly. I'm not going to get ahead of where a deal finally lands here until that's announced, but ultimately, the president's been very clear on this objective.
INSKEEP: One other thing you raised at the beginning - you said Hezbollah is firing rockets. Israel is going to respond, and we're not going to stop Israel from that. But there is a situation in which Iran has said any peace deal must include Lebanon. The Israelis have said, we must continue our invasion, our incursion into Lebanon. Does that raise the risk that Israel's pursuing its interests in Lebanon might undermine a broader peace deal or even make it impossible?
PIGOTT: Well, look. Some of the malign activities that we've seen in the Iranian regime for decades includes the funding of its terrorist proxies like Hezbollah. Hezbollah has brought nothing but death and destruction to the Lebanese people, drawing the Lebanese people into conflict. What we're seeing right now are specific operations from Israel against Hezbollah.
The talks we're seeing regarding Lebanon are between the government of Lebanon and Israel, so the Iranian regime is not a party to those talks. This is between the government of Lebanon and Israel. Those are separate. But of course, in the broader context, we are seeing the Iranian regime funding Hezbollah, which has brought conflict, death and destruction to the Lebanese people. We have a historic opportunity here to bring these parties to the table - government of Lebanon, government of Israel - for long-term peace and prosperity. That's our goal here - to see those talks go forward. And ultimately, the fastest way to de-escalation is for Hezbollah to stop firing.
INSKEEP: OK. Tommy Pigott, I hope we continue this discussion. Thanks so much.
PIGOTT: Thanks for having me on.
INSKEEP: He's a spokesperson for the United States Department of State, Secretary of State Rubio.
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