STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
OK. The president's Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, joined Secretary of State Marco Rubio to brief lawmakers yesterday, and Representative Gregory Meeks of New York was on the call. He's the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and he's on the line with us. Representative, good morning.
GREGORY MEEKS: Good morning to you. Good to be with you.
INSKEEP: Were you persuaded that the administration has a coherent plan to resolve the war?
MEEKS: No, I was basically just the opposite. And after you review this memorandum of understanding, it raises serious concerns. I mean, I think that by - basically, it wasn't a briefing, I should say, also. It was a question-and-answer session, at least for those of us in the House. They didn't brief.
INSKEEP: OK.
MEEKS: They didn't say anything initially. It basically allowed members to ask questions.
INSKEEP: Oh, OK. What was your question, if any?
MEEKS: Well, my question was as to what is meant by an open strait in this session. I says that, you know, what does opening the strait mean in operational terms? And, you know, because the administration says that the strait will be toll-free. Iran says it reserves the right to charge transit fees, as it stated in - you know, and it says in point five that that could be. And so I wanted to know what commitments did the administration make about tolling after the 60 days, and what is the legal mechanism for resolving any dispute if it arose.
INSKEEP: And what'd you hear back?
MEEKS: Well, I heard, you know, actually, nothing back from - well, I shouldn't say I didn't hear any back. I heard from Rubio when he said they will absolutely - the Iran would not be allowed to toll. They wouldn't toll at all. But, you know, then I also heard at the session that they had with the Senate, he - 'cause it does not say that in this MOU. And he says that Iran has not agreed that there would not be a toll, you know, but it doesn't make a difference what Iran says. So, you know, you see a difference 'cause I just checked with some of the senators...
INSKEEP: Yeah.
MEEKS: ...What happened when they said there's a difference in what they said before the members of the House in this open forum questioning and what they said to the Senate. There seems to be continued differences of...
INSKEEP: Got it.
MEEKS: ...Statements, depending upon who they're talking to.
INSKEEP: It seems at least clear that it's unresolved exactly what the future status of the Strait of Hormuz would be. Do they have - does the administration have some basis of agreement on Iran's nuclear program, a plan that they think is going to work?
MEEKS: Look, I didn't hear that either. Listen, if you heard the plan from what they've said initially before the war, that they had gotten rid of all the nuclear weapons and sites, etc. That's what they completely obliterated. So I didn't hear anything that they said that showed that there was a need to do anything to go to war to this - you know, as opposed to what had happened in the prior June. So there was - you know, 'cause the big issue is, why did we go to war without coming to Congress, and what was different after starting a war than before? And you really didn't hear any answers to that.
INSKEEP: Representative Meeks, I want to ask about some statements the administration has made in public, and I'm curious if they talk about things the same way in private because some of the public statements are baffling. And I speak as a citizen, trying to understand, not critical, is just baffling. Here's an example. The president has said it was a breakthrough that Iran at last agreed never to have a nuclear weapon, and some lawmakers have gone along with that and repeated that statement. At last, Iran has agreed. As you probably know, Iran always says they don't want a weapon. They've said that for decades.
MEEKS: Absolutely.
INSKEEP: The question is how to trust or verify that. So here's my question. When you're listening to Witkoff, when you're listening to Rubio in private, are they in touch with reality on that? Do they actually know what's going on?
MEEKS: No, I think that what they - actually in private, what they said yesterday is when they talked about that, it sounded that their resolution was very similar to what the JCPOA said, you know, that there would be inspectors. The IAEA would be allowed to go in and verify what was and what wasn't happening in that regard. Well, that was...
INSKEEP: OK. So they were aware that the key is verification here. It's not what Iran says.
MEEKS: That's correct. That's what they said. But, you know, it's basically what had been agreed to 'cause as you indicated, Iran has agreed to this before. It's not a breakthrough. It is something that they'd agreed to with the JCPOA and were cooperating with. You know, I went to Geneva several times to talk to the IAEA, Mr. Rousseau (ph), to find out whether or not they had cameras and whether they were continuing to watch what Iran was doing and how far would they - you know, what was their nuclear capabilities in, etc. And they had information. They said had more eyesight and more understanding of Iran's nuclear program than ever. But, of course, when Mr. Trump came in, he ripped that agreement up. And now he seems to be wanting to go back to the status quo.
INSKEEP: Very briefly, we heard from Ruth Sherlock about Israel remaining in Lebanon. Troops will stay in Lebanon. Do you think that's a wise course for the Israelis?
MEEKS: No, I think that what we need to do is to make sure that what we're doing is strengthening the Lebanese military so that they can take on Hezbollah. And that's what we've been focused on, and I continue to do that. We cannot have a continuation of, you know, civilian deaths that has taken place. And, you know, and I think that to get an agreement and make sure that we're having our GCC allies with us, they all want to make sure that there's no occupation of Lebanese territories.
INSKEEP: Got it.
MEEKS: We want to make sure that we go after Hezbollah, and we want to make sure that the Lebanese army has the ability to go after Hezbollah because Hezbollah is a threat not only to Israel.
INSKEEP: Got to stop you there. Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York. Thanks so much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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