LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy waved at U.S. senators from the gallery as they voted to advance more economic penalties for Russia last night. William Taylor also followed the developments. He's a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine who still travels there regularly. He's now with the Atlantic Council. Ambassador, good morning, and welcome to the program.
WILLIAM TAYLOR: Thank you, Leila. Good to be here.
FADEL: That Senate vote was 86 to 12. The legislation would impose sanctions on countries that buy Russian exports like oil and gas. It was a - just a procedural vote, but how much of a game changer would this bill be if it became law?
TAYLOR: Leila, this would really accelerate the penalty that the Russians pay for prosecuting this war. It's also, Leila - 86 to 12 is a strong message of support for Ukraine and a strong message of condemnation of the Russians from a bipartisan group of senators that reflects the views of the American people. So this is a strong message of support for Ukraine.
FADEL: Do you think Zelenskyy's meeting with senators before the vote impacted the outcome and that strong majority?
TAYLOR: It surely had to. President Zelenskyy is very convincing. He is - he's very committed. It's very clear what he stands for. The senators are eager to - were eager to hear from him, and they listened carefully. They were probably inclined to support this anyway out of respect and support for Lindsey Graham. But I think President Zelenskyy had a big effect.
FADEL: On social media, Zelenskyy said he and Trump discussed licenses for Patriot interceptor production and that diplomacy should be, quote, "reinvigorated." The White House said only that Trump's meeting with Zelenskyy was, quote, "positive and productive." What do you make of the different descriptions?
TAYLOR: They're both consistent that they had the good discussions about air defense, which is top priority for the Ukrainians. As Greg just mentioned, the Russians send ballistic missiles and drones into Ukraine, into Kyiv every night. And the ability for the Ukrainians to make their own anti-ballistic missile weapons is really important. That will take time. They're working on their own version, and this license can help with that.
FADEL: How close would you say the U.S. is to giving Zelenskyy the Patriot technology he's been asking for for more than three years?
TAYLOR: That sounds like it's coming. It sounds like that agreement - that a decision has been made. There's a lot that goes into that. There's bureaucratic changes. There's licenses that have to be agreed. But the motion forward is clear. And if President Trump can put some urgency into that, he can make that happen more quickly.
FADEL: Will he? I mean, the rhetoric has improved between the two leaders. The situation on the ground remains challenging. We heard the president before this meeting kind of say, well, I need to check with Putin about what Zelenskyy is saying vis-a-vis this intelligence that there was - Russia was helping Iran. Do you see a true sea change in the relationship between Trump and Zelenskyy?
TAYLOR: I do, Leila. I think it is a sea change. And I think what explains that change is the fact - the clear, observed fact - that the Ukrainians are doing so well on the ground. The Ukrainians are actually winning at this point, and I think President Trump recognizes that. He's hearing that from his own intelligence. He's seeing that from his conversations with Zelenskyy. He likes to back a winner. Ukraine is a winner, and that's describing - that, I think, explains the sea change.
FADEL: You know, another interesting thing that has happened in the last few days is this far-right-wing influencer Laura Loomer has started to speak up in favor of Ukraine in recent weeks. And that's a real U-turn for her. She's been touring Ukraine and now says she was duped by Russian propaganda. In the past, you know, she did really not speak up for Ukraine and actually kind of speak against them. How strong an ally could Laura Loomer be in advocating for Ukraine with President Trump, given her close relationship?
TAYLOR: Well, I think she has some influence with President Trump, but it also goes the other direction. That is, President Trump has influence over her and gives her some suggestions about which way to go. And, as I say, both President Trump and Laura Loomer...
FADEL: Oh, interesting.
TAYLOR: ...Understand that that is going to be important and the Ukrainians are going forward.
FADEL: So are you saying that the shift with the president might explain the shift with this influencer?
TAYLOR: Yes. That's what I'm saying, Leila. I mean that a lot of the Republican base has shifted in favor of Ukraine, and I think they they - they'll take their lead from President Trump.
FADEL: William Taylor is a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Ambassador, thank you for your time and your insights.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Leila. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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