A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
President Trump has repeatedly said that no one will be allowed to control the Strait of Hormuz, which would suggest he will not go along with a plan that keeps American and Israeli vessels out of it.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
That is how Iran is describing the contours of an agreement it is negotiating directly with Oman. The proposal, which is still under discussion, would also involve a fee for the ships that are allowed to pass through. That's another redline for the White House.
MARTÍNEZ: NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez joins us now to discuss the latest talks. Franco, the president has said many times before that a deal was close, but in particular this week that a deal was really close. So what happened?
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Yeah, A. It's just clear that what President Trump is saying publicly about progress is either not matching the reality of what is being discussed or at least not being understood by the Iranians. I mean, this idea of who controls the Strait of Hormuz is the same problem that led to the breakdown of the memorandum of understanding signed back in June. I was talking with Justin Logan, director of defense and foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute, a libertarian nonpartisan think tank. He pointed to the breakdown over one single paragraph, Paragraph 5, still being the issue.
JUSTIN LOGAN: It's a bit like the unstoppable force that meets the immovable object. I mean, neither country's public position, at least, has changed significantly, and that was what caused the memorandum of understanding to implode in the first place.
ORDOÑEZ: I mean, Paragraph 5 said that, quote, "Iran will make arrangements" and use its best efforts to facilitate traffic. Now, Iran interpreted that as they would be in charge of the waterway. But the U.S. interpreted it differently, as that things would go back to the status quo. But today, based on their competing statements, it just seems that little has changed.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. So why does this keep happening?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I mean, the president is under a great deal of pressure to get out of this war, to reopen the strait, to get a handle on energy prices, gas prices. I mean, the president really wants to get the economy going again before the midterms, which are only a few months away. But he's also clearly looking down the road to what will be written about him in history books.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, that's like citing former President Herbert Hoover when he signed the memorandum of understanding in June.
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. Exactly. I mean, he mentioned that time - Hoover - a few times when signing the MOU, really out of concern for the economy. He mentioned not wanting to be compared to Hoover, who's, you know, known for not doing enough to stop the Great Depression. I mean, A, Trump's thrown so much military power at the Iranians to try to get them to comply with his demands, but they're just not caving. And instead, they - the Iranians - are making so many demands of their own, especially about controlling the strait, hence this stalemate.
And that is leading to concerns from observers like Logan, who worry that ultimately, to get out of this war, the U.S. is going to have to accept something that is worse than the status quo, which was the Strait of Hormuz free of movement.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah, that's not the only thing that the president's been defensive about. What do you make of Trump's pushback on reporting that the Army is running low on munitions?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I spoke about this with Logan as well, and he said that the president is basically trying to deny the math. Logan said there's no question that the U.S. has gone through a huge proportion of its Patriot missile interceptors and other munitions over five months of war.
MARTÍNEZ: That's White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. Franco, thanks a lot.
ORDOÑEZ: Thanks, A. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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