ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
It's a classic TV formula - a comedian plays a version of themselves, from Larry David in "Curb Your Enthusiasm" to Lucille Ball in "I Love Lucy." The comedian Benito Skinner is the latest to grab that baton. He developed a huge following on social media as Benny Drama, and now he's the creator and star of "Overcompensating." It's a sitcom about a closeted college student named Benny and the girl who becomes his best friend.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "OVERCOMPENSATING")
WALLY BARAM: (As Carmen) I love this song.
BENITO SKINNER: (As Benny) One of the great songwriters of our time.
BARAM: (As Carmen) I've never met a guy that likes Lorde.
SKINNER: (As Benny) Oh, yeah, no, I think she's sexy.
BARAM: (As Carmen) You think Lorde is sexy?
SKINNER: (As Benny) Yeah.
SHAPIRO: Benito Skinner, welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
SKINNER: Hi, thank you so much. I am so honored to be here.
SHAPIRO: This show centers on a relationship that is so essential to lots of gay men. On the first day of school, Benny meets this woman named Carmen, played by Wally Baram. Why did you want to build the story around that specific dynamic?
SKINNER: Yeah, well, I think when I was looking at structuring the show, I think the first question was, OK, if we're talking about overcompensating, when did I stop overcompensating so much? And I think for me, it was when I met this girlfriend in college who, I think, was the first person I felt like I didn't have to do this big, performative masculinity in front of. And...
SHAPIRO: Your real-life Carmen.
SKINNER: Yes, my real-life Carmen. And so, I think, in writing the show, it was, like, that's the love story of this.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "OVERCOMPENSATING")
SKINNER: (As Benny) We're in a parking lot outside of Domino's, and this is the highlight of my college experience so far, so...
BARAM: (As Carmen) That is a tragic sentence.
SKINNER: (As Benny, laughing) Yeah. It's kind of pathetic, but it's true.
SHAPIRO: Are you still friends with your real-life Carmen? Has she seen the show?
SKINNER: I am. She just saw it. We did a screening for NYU students, and she came to that. And there's a scene in the pilot where we steal a golf cart. And it's, like, the exact same thing that happened to me and my friend Nora.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "OVERCOMPENSATING")
SKINNER: (As Benny) Slow down. Oh, my God.
BARAM: (As Carmen) Woo.
SKINNER: (As Benny) No, stop.
And I didn't tell her anything that I had included.
SHAPIRO: Wow.
SKINNER: And after she was like, what? Oh, my God. And she cried, and it was really - yeah, it just feels beautiful, I think, to share it now.
SHAPIRO: I want to talk about the scene that everybody is talking about where the real-life Charli XCX shows up on campus playing herself. Before we get into the details of it, can you just tell us how you got that to happen?
SKINNER: Oh, my God. So we were in the writers' room, and I knew that we were going to get Charli for a little bit of it. I knew she was going to perform a few songs for it because I just...
SHAPIRO: Like, she had already agreed to that? Like, you and...
SKINNER: Yes.
SHAPIRO: ...Charli are buddies or something?
SKINNER: Yes. Yeah, we - it actually - our friendship developed from this. I saw her at a party, and I, like, a week prior, had thought, it has to be her who does the music of the show. I mean, she's been, like, sonically impactful for 10-plus years. She was the, you know, soundtrack to my college experience. I think so many people will feel that way. So I went up to her after, like, two margaritas and so, you know, trashed. I'm about to meet floor. And I see her, and I'm...
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
SKINNER: ...Just like, will you do the music for my show? And she just was like, send me the script, babes. And then the relationship really developed from there, and she hopped on the project.
SHAPIRO: There's an amazing scene where Benny imagines Charli leading everybody at the concert in a chant.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "OVERCOMPENSATING")
CHARLI XCX: (As self) OK, here we go. Benny.
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (As characters) Likes boys.
CHARLI XCX: (As self) Benny.
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (As characters) Likes boys.
CHARLI XCX: (As self) Benny.
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: (As characters) Likes boys.
SHAPIRO: Benito Skinner, can you describe what it was like to film that scene? I can only imagine it was an out-of-body experience.
SKINNER: It really was. I mean, I feel like, at times, I would be in the scene and be like, did I want everyone to dom me?
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
SKINNER: Is there something, like, I need to talk it through about, was Iike...
SHAPIRO: Do we need to...
SKINNER: ...I need a therapist (laughter) or...
SHAPIRO: ...Explain to our NPR listeners what that means?
SKINNER: I think...
SHAPIRO: I don't know. Go on. Go on.
SKINNER: Exactly. I'm like, I don't know. What is this? Do I want to punish myself? And I think, for me, it's just thinking of how terrifying it felt at any given point in the closet. There were all these things in my head that I thought, they're going to know. And they'll - if I do this, then they're going to know, and it's just all going to crumble down, and I'm going to have to come out. I had no idea how hard she was going to go, though. So when she screams Benny at the end, I broke in, like, every take 'cause I just - I could not believe that that's what she did.
SHAPIRO: It's a cliche to say that comedy is tragedy plus time, but you're replaying some of these, I'm sure, very traumatic experiences from your younger years as comedy.
SKINNER: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: Was that cathartic and helpful? Was it exposing old wounds? What did it feel like?
SKINNER: Exposing old wounds is such a brilliant way of putting it. I think your - you go back to it, and I think a lot of the things you kind of block out of your memory. But I think I found that in doing it, I felt so much power in being like, oh, when I do this kind of performative masculinity, now I have the power over it, and I can laugh at myself for doing it, and laugh at, I think, how cringe it is, but also see how sad it was and, I think, maybe forgive myself in a lot of ways for not coming out sooner. I think that was something that I've held for the last eight years since I've been out, is just, why did I wait so long? I've missed out on so many things. But I think in shooting the show, yeah, it felt really cathartic to finally maybe give myself some forgiveness and grace. But, yeah, some of it - I mean, I would show up to set, read the sides and be like, why did I do this to myself?
SHAPIRO: Why am I putting myself...
SKINNER: 'Cause like...
SHAPIRO: ...Through this?
SKINNER: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: Is there an example...
SKINNER: I'm sick.
SHAPIRO: ...You can give us? Is there a scene you can point to where you really felt that way?
SKINNER: There's a scene at the end of the fifth episode between Benny and Carmen, where something really sad happens to me, and that was based on a real experience. And I just remember that being kind of something where I was like, d***. But I wanted to give it justice 'cause I think so many queer people have felt that, where you put...
SHAPIRO: Oh.
SKINNER: ...Your love in the wrong hands, and you just get shattered, and you think that maybe you have a way out and you don't. And just - that scene, I think, it was so easy, honestly, to play it and be devastated. 'Cause I think I just channeled so many years of that.
SHAPIRO: Yeah. You're at a party. You've decided to finally make a move on your crush. Emotions are high. The stakes feel enormous.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "OVERCOMPENSATING")
RISH SHAH: (As Miles) Can I ask you something?
SKINNER: (As Benny) Yeah, yeah, of course.
SHAH: (As Miles) Is your roommate still out of town?
SKINNER: (As Benny) Yeah. Yeah. He's at Syracuse until Monday.
SHAPIRO: It reminded me of a teenage conversation I had where I thought we were talking about kissing, and he thought we were talking about smoking weed.
SKINNER: Oh, my God.
SHAPIRO: And it was like...
SKINNER: It's like...
SHAPIRO: ...Are we going to do this? Have you ever done it...
SKINNER: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: ...Before? And it's like, oh, we are completely talking about different things here.
SKINNER: Yeah, and your whole body goes cold, and you're just like, I'm a fool. And this thing - I had it all in my head. We were going to get married. Like, and I think that - oh, God - yeah. Oh, that makes me sick. I'm so sorry.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter) Well, it was like...
SKINNER: What h***. What h***.
SHAPIRO: ...So long ago. So how did playing this character who is so similar to Benito Skinner help you understand the person you are today? You know, being able to step outside of yourself...
SKINNER: Wow.
SHAPIRO: ...And do these things not as yourself, but as Benny?
SKINNER: I think I saw that through the show I could finally talk about that and this feeling of needing to be perfect and that that's the only way to get love and learning, I think, even through the character, that it's not; that this woman in front of me and so many people around me do not need me to perform and do this whole thing for them; that all of these characters, as messy and complicated as they are, are lovable as is. And I think that that's kind of what we get to play with within the show and what I learned so much about myself.
SHAPIRO: Benito Skinner, congratulations on your new show, and thank you for talking with us about it.
SKINNER: Thank you so much. This was truly a dream.
SHAPIRO: He's the creator, writer and star of "Overcompensating" on Amazon Prime.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BOYS")
CHARLI XCX: (Singing) But I was busy thinkin' 'bout boys, boys, boys. Always busy dreamin' 'bout boys, boys, boys. Head is spinnin' thinkin' 'bout boys. In every city I've got one with different ringtones. Flyin' from LA all the way to Puerto Rico. My girls are callin' me askin' me where I'm at. Didn't hit 'em back. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
