A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Before he became a two-time president, Donald Trump was a star of reality TV. His love of showmanship was on full display this week when he announced that he would be hosting this year's Kennedy Center Honors. Marc Fisher is a columnist for The Washington Post. He co-wrote the book "Trump Revealed," and I asked him what is it about the Honors that fascinates the president.
MARC FISHER: This is - just like the presidency - one of those things that puts Donald Trump not only at the center of attention but center stage in a very entertainment way. He has always wanted to be part of showbiz. The path not taken for young Donald Trump was film school. He applied and got in and then never went, but that gives you an idea that he had an entertainment career in mind from the start. And even as a young real estate developer, he was making sure that he was not only in the print tabloids, but also on the radio and TV talk shows.
MARTÍNEZ: Well, he had a big hit TV show for a long time, didn't he? I mean, technically.
FISHER: Yes, absolutely. And this is nothing new for Donald Trump. If you go back to his early life, he talks about how his father taught him that he has to be a winner at all times. And his mentor, Roy Cohn, taught him to be aggressive - some would say unprincipled - about getting everything you want. But it's his mother who taught him that love of pomp and showmanship. He talks about how she was a huge fan of the royal family, and she kind of instilled in him that bug to be on stage. Even as a young developer, he was making movie cameo appearances as himself in "Home Alone" and other films.
MARTÍNEZ: What do you think that President Trump accomplishes culturally by taking control of a cultural institution such as the Kennedy Center and the Smithsonian?
FISHER: So this was a very clear signifier for Trump that he was going to try to turn this national institution of the high arts into something much more middle-brow. These are all mainstream pop figures such as Sylvester Stallone and Gloria Gaynor. So it's a different kind of art that he's celebrating, and it's more his taste. Going back to high school, he was a fan not of the up-and-coming rock and roll that was fighting the institutions and establishment of society. He was a fan of the good old-fashioned crooners like Johnny Mathis. And later in life, his taste ran to "Cats" and "Phantom Of The Opera" on Broadway, not to serious plays or even more cutting-edge musicals.
MARTÍNEZ: Now you mentioned some of Trump's picks for the Kennedy Center Honors - Kiss, the flashy, face-painting rock band, Gloria Gaynor, who famously sang, "I Will Survive." Then you got George Strait, the Texas country music legend, Broadway star Michael Crawford. You mentioned Sylvester Stallone, who came up with two very iconic American characters, Rocky and Rambo. What do you think these picks tell us specifically about where Donald Trump is right now culturally?
FISHER: Donald Trump is always - one of his top skills is to sense not only the frustrations and grievances of the American people but also their passions. And so the music that he played at his campaign rallies was always the kind of thing that would draw people together. He never played the kinds of songs that alienated one group while another group was excited by it. So he has that sense of shaping his taste according to what the masses appreciate.
MARTÍNEZ: There's going to be a lot of people, Marc, who are going to think, well, you know what, whether you like it or not, these names are American cultural icons. So what's wrong necessarily with shaking up this elite arts institution for once?
FISHER: There's nothing wrong with Donald Trump imposing broad American tastes on a big American institution. But this particular institution, the Kennedy Center, was created as a way of celebrating and broadening the appeal of the classic arts, of the high arts, to sort of show the highest achievements of American culture. And Kennedy was very much interested in that. He turned the White House into a salon where the cellist Pablo Casals performed, where artists came and spoke about their work.
So for Donald Trump, he is spurning all of that. He's saying, we're not going to be a highfalutin. We're not going to be elite. Just as in all of his politics, he's about embracing the broad swath of the country and looking down on and really resenting the influence and impact of elites. So here he is, eliminating the elites from an elite institution. It doesn't get more pure Trump than that.
MARTÍNEZ: One more thing, Marc, if you got an invite to that UFC fight at the White House - that mixed martial arts fight at the White House - would you go to watch that thing?
FISHER: I would certainly go because, you know, it's my job. It's not the place...
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).
FISHER: ...I would choose to spend my money for a ticket.
MARTÍNEZ: Marc Fisher is a columnist for The Washington Post. He also co-wrote the book, "Trump Revealed." Marc, thank you very much for being here.
FISHER: Good to be with you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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