ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Comedian Jimmy Kimmel being pulled off the air has taken the conversation around freedom of speech to a new level. ABC put his show on indefinite hiatus after comments about the killing of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. This is a pivotal moment in the country, with lots of important questions that center on power, money and democracy itself. Here to help us answer some of those questions is NPR senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro. Hi, Domenico.
DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Hey, Ari. Great to be with you.
SHAPIRO: President Trump has said for a long time that he would like Kimmel off the air. What did Kimmel say that finally led to Trump getting his wish?
MONTANARO: Yeah, I mean, the controversy centers on Kimmel's show Monday night and what he said here specifically.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!")
JIMMY KIMMEL: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
MONTANARO: You know, after Kirk's assassination, the alleged shooter's motives were still not well known. I mean, there was discussion about the inscriptions of the bullets, the meme and gamer culture around them and how some of this may have been prevalent with some who didn't like Kirk from the right. But, you know, we didn't ascribe motive because, as journalists, we're trying to be as cautious as possible until the facts are made clear. But that doesn't stop the internet on either side from assuming what people want to conclude. Comedians and journalists, though, of course, not the same.
SHAPIRO: The Federal Communications Commission has gotten involved and started the domino effect that apparently led to Kimmel being taken off the air indefinitely, according to ABC. What was the FCC's role here?
MONTANARO: Right. Really, we saw all of this start in motion after FCC Chairman Brendan Carr yesterday went on "The Benny Show," a podcast hosted by Benny Johnson, a conservative right-wing podcaster. Here's what he said.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "THE BENNY SHOW")
BRENDAN CARR: And they have a license granted by us at the FCC, and that comes with it an obligation to operate in the public interest. And we can get into some ways that we've been trying to reinvigorate the public interest and some changes that we've seen. But frankly, when you see stuff like this - I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.
MONTANARO: Yeah, I mean, Kimmel has a long history of just eviscerating Trump and other conservatives, and that's irritated them for years. Going after him and his show this way is similar to the playbook of operationalizing political retribution that we've seen from Trump here in his second term.
SHAPIRO: Trump certainly said during the campaign that he was going to seek retribution, and he appointed a loyalist known for conservative views to run the FCC. Is it typical for the FCC to comment on individual performers or companies in this way?
MONTANARO: Historically, it hasn't been, but Carr has talked about wanting to rebalance the legacy media and have a more active FCC to do so. He cites the public interest standard, which he says is meant to hold broadcasters accountable for news distortion and broadcast hoaxes. Others disagree with how he's applying that standard, though.
SHAPIRO: I said at the top that this is about power, money and democracy itself. Where does money factor in here?
MONTANARO: I mean, this is a marriage of politics and money, of course. I mean, let's follow the money here, a little bit, and I think things become a little clearer. Nexstar Media owns a lot of broadcast stations across the country. They are on the verge of merging with Tegna, a competitor, but there's a problem. FCC has put a limit on how wide the reach is supposed to be for local broadcasters, and with this merger, Nexstar would exceed that.
FCC Chairman Carr has said he's open to changing the rule and lifting the cap, calling it arcane and artificial. Though there's some question as to whether the FCC can do it on its own or, you know, if they need Congress to do so. But follow the bouncing ball here. Carr goes on Benny Johnson's podcast. Just hours later, Nexstar announces that it's going to preempt "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" on all of its stations, and then Kimmel is pulled. It's not a far leap to understand that a lot of companies are doing what they can to stay in the good graces of the Trump administration because there's just a lot of money at stake.
SHAPIRO: NPR's Domenico Montanaro, thank you.
MONTANARO: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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