SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
The U.S. government is hurtling toward a shutdown unless lawmakers can reach a spending deal before midnight Tuesday. House Republicans have passed a short-term extension. But in the Senate, Democrats are holding out for more than $1 trillion in spending, primarily on health care. Senator Ron Johnson, Republican of Wisconsin, joins us now from his home state. Senator, thanks so much for being with us.
RON JOHNSON: Good morning, Scott. Hope you're doing well.
SIMON: I hope you're doing well, sir. And let's ask about the possibility of a shutdown. Would you be willing to compromise with Democrats to keep health care benefits to avoid one?
JOHNSON: Well, first of all, aren't you getting sick of reporting on this year after year? I sure am. Since I've been there, since 2011, we've had three shutdowns, 55 continuing resolutions. We've increased or suspended the debt ceiling 12 times, taking our debt from $14 trillion to $37 trillion in debt. Last year, it took us six months to finally come to agreement to finally fund government. So what I'm suggesting is passing a bill - Eliminate Shutdowns Act - that gets rid of this for all time, ends the turmoil. It's incredibly simple. All you have to do is just pass this bill, and then you'll establish 14-day rolling continuing appropriations if you haven't appropriated for these particular departments. It's just really simple, so there shouldn't be any compromise needed. Just pass this bill and then get to work on individual appropriation bills.
SIMON: Well - but with respect, sir, that - I mean, your bill hasn't passed yet. What would you be willing to do over the next few days?
JOHNSON: We can - we're going to vote on it on Monday. And so we'll also be voting on the House bill. The, you know, House passed a continuing resolution up to Thanksgiving. And by the way, that's the well-honed process by the uniparty to put pressure on the process to just pass anything, which has then resulted in us going from $14 trillion to $37 trillion. It's designed to increase spending. Everybody has to get together and compromise to spend more on everybody's programs. Again, we can't afford this. So again, let's end the dysfunction. There's no reason - this is what we do in Wisconsin. It's really why I proposed this bill. In - back in the '50s, Wisconsin said, OK, if we're so dysfunctional we can't pass appropriation bills, we don't shut down the agencies. We just fund them at last year's levels. Isn't that incredibly common sense? That's what we ought to do.
SIMON: But does the threat of a shutdown encourage the parties to compromise?
JOHNSON: Yeah, I mean, compromise to spend a whole lot more money on everybody's priorities. So again, there'll be plenty of pressure to pass appropriation bills because we've got big spenders. Last year's funding level will never be enough for a lot of the members, so it'll be plenty of pressure. We would just end the turmoil. Listen, this is politicians playing games with people's lives. We ought to end it. There's no need for it whatsoever. I come from the private sector. This is beyond absurd - how dysfunctional Congress is. But we...
SIMON: Are we in a - I didn't ask.
JOHNSON: We need to stop accepting it.
SIMON: Senator, are we in a state of affairs now, though, where politicians believe there are more points to be won by refusing to compromise, even if it results in another shutdown?
JOHNSON: Well, again, what I'm saying is, let's get rid of all of that. Again, isn't this this elegantly simple solution? By the way, this is what'll end up happening. This will be the end result. It's what the end result was last year. We - again, six months until we came to a full-year continuing resolution. That's it. Democrats - this is how reasonable they are. They'll give us four-week continuing resolution. All we have to do is spend another $1.5 trillion over the next 10 years. So they obviously don't want to compromise. Again, I don't need compromise right now. Just continue to fund the government at last year's level. Then start working on individual appropriation bills.
SIMON: Would you still want to eliminate shutdowns under a Democratic president? Because...
JOHNSON: Yes.
SIMON: ...It could...
JOHNSON: Yes. I mean, if I pass this bill, you'll never have another shutdown ever. You'll just - you - again, if you don't pass appropriation - no matter who's in power, if you don't pass an appropriation bill for the whole of government or individual departments, you just spend at last year's level. Two-week rolling continuing appropriations, and then you get back to work.
SIMON: Are you saying, essentially, pass my bill or there'll be a shutdown?
JOHNSON: No. I'll vote for the House continuing resolution. I've generally voted for continuing resolutions, as much as I hate them, because I don't want to shut down government. It's very inefficient. It hurts people. This sets up an automatic continuing appropriation. You'll never have another shutdown ever. You'll never have to have this conversation. We'll never have to do another interview like this. Won't that be great?
SIMON: Well, it's always good to talk to you. Senator Ron Johnson, thanks so much for joining us.
JOHNSON: Have a great day. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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