A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Thousands of federal workers received layoff notices Friday as the government shutdown continues. At least some of those intended firings have already, though, been walked back.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
The Trump administration continues to blame Democrats for drastic changes to the federal government, but these are changes that have also been part of the President's Day 1 agenda. This, as members of the military face the prospect of their first missed paycheck this week.
MARTÍNEZ: NPR's Stephen Fowler has been keeping track of these changes, joining us now to help sort all of this out. So, Stephen, we're heading into the second week of the government shutdown. Friday, the White House announced substantial layoffs were coming for federal employees. Where do those now stand?
STEPHEN FOWLER, BYLINE: So about 4,000 people from at least seven agencies received these reduction-in-force notices. That includes places like the IRS, the Education Department and the Department of Housing and Urban Development. A quarter of those layoffs were with the Department of Health and Human Services. Sources told NPR that more than a hundred employees at the country's top mental health agency will be let go, plus hundreds more at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That was Friday. On Saturday, some CDC employees started receiving word that their layoff notices were being reversed. We don't know the scope and scale of that decision. But I did hear from a few folks who are the so-called disease detectives that work on investigating outbreaks, who say their cuts were walked back.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. Now, Vice President JD Vance was asked about those reversals on CBS' "Face The Nation" yesterday. This is what he had to say.
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JD VANCE: So you ask, how does this mistake happen? It happened because Chuck Schumer shut down the government, and we're trying to make sure that essential services still function in the face of that shutdown.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. Take us through the Trump administration's logic here.
FOWLER: Well, the administration argues that Democrats' refusal to drop their demands for extending health care subsidies means they have to start firing workers and cutting spending to keep the lights on for essential government services. Budget experts say that's not how that works. Those essential services continue no matter how many people work for the government because they are essential. Federal employees who keep doing their jobs during the shutdown will get paid once a new spending plan is passed. Beyond that, firing workers and slashing spending has been a top Trump administration priority since day one, like the Department of Government Efficiency effort. And also like DOGE, some government experts I talked to last week before the firings were announced said to take any threats and big changes with a grain of salt, like Jessica Riedl with the center-right Manhattan Institute.
JESSICA RIEDL: There's a lot of people in the government right now who were pretty sure their jobs were going to be eliminated six months ago, but are still employed by the federal government.
FOWLER: In fact, A, in recent weeks before the shutdown, we've been reporting on federal agencies hiring people back because they can't perform basic functions or carry out Trump's agenda.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. So there are some layoffs, except for the ones that are being reversed. This week is also the first potential missed paycheck for military members. Is that really going to happen?
FOWLER: Over the weekend, President Trump posted on his social media site, Truth Social, that he would make sure the troops are paid. A Pentagon official not authorized to speak publicly told NPR that they would take about $8 billion of unused research, development, testing and evaluation funds to cover the paychecks for October 15. It's not clear if they can legally do that, but like many big changes to the federal government this year, the White House says it's using power over appropriations that belongs to Congress.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. That's NPR's Stephen Fowler. Stephen, thanks.
FOWLER: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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