SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman was one of a handful of Democrats who voted to reopen the federal government late last night. It's not a surprise. Fetterman has been against his party's gamble since the beginning. He has said he wants to extend the health care subsidies at the heart of the impasse, but not at the cost of cutting SNAP benefits or the other consequences of the shutdown. Fetterman paid a visit to NPR's D.C. studio late this morning. I asked him about why he's been at odds with the majority of his party on the shutdown.
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DETROW: You called it a failure when you put out a statement last night, you know, leading up to this vote to begin the process of reopening the government. You've been clear that that's been your point of view all along. Walk us through why. Why were Democratic leaders and other members in your party wrong to push forward with this?
JOHN FETTERMAN: Well, we were - as a committed Democrat, it's always been wrong for us to shut the government down. Rightly, they criticize the Republicans when they've shut the government down all the time. It's wrong. It's reckless. You can pull up all the quotes that would confirm that. So now that's - you know, now it might be us driving it. That makes it wrong too.
I absolutely support extending those tax credits. But for me, the kinds of chaos and holding our government hostage is unacceptable. And you can have priorities, but it's wrong to go shutting our government down, and that's where we're at.
DETROW: I wanted to get your response to some of the thinking from other members of the party. I want to quote you something from Ezra Klein, the New York Times columnist who isn't in Congress, but I think he kind of represents a lot of the mainstream thinking here. And the quote is this - "Shutdowns are an opportunity to make an argument, and the country was just starting to pay attention. If Trump wanted to cancel flights over Thanksgiving rather than keep health care costs down, I don't see why Democrats should save him from making his priorities so exquisitely clear. And I worry that Democrats have just taught Trump that they will fold under pressure. That's the kind of lesson he remembers."
What do you make of that general argument?
FETTERMAN: Well, it's just - like, that's actually not a fold. That's realizing that it's the kind of chaos that might care more about the kinds of impacts that it's going to have on 42 million people. Like, if you depend on them to eat, that's not a political game. And it's not a political game, as Mr. Klein seems to refer to it as, you know? It's really about our bigger priorities.
And now, in a longer conversation here, remind us (ph), Democrats designed those tax credits to expire at this year. That's the Democratic Party. That's not something they're taking away. They're saying, we can have a conversation to extend them. And I do hope we should. And I think many of their constituents are going to be impacted too. And that's why I think it's a way forward to find that without dropping our entire country into this kinds of chaos.
DETROW: Part of the agreement is that there's a promised vote on these health care subsidies, extending them. How confident are you that actually happens, that gets to the president's desk?
FETTERMAN: I do believe John Thune is an honorable man in the arena. And Trump, I would like to remind everyone with the border deal. And I assumed we'd get rolled for that, and we did. And you can't control what Trump's going to decide, ultimately. But for me, it's a choice of do you really want to risk the kinds of mass chaos that we are quickly descending in? And after 40 days, how much longer? And now it's a fact, too, flying is becoming more and more chaotic, and that probably also means dangerous more than it should be. Yes, I want health care, but not to create this kinds of stress in our system.
DETROW: That was Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman, who is also out with a new memoir this week. Our wide-ranging conversation continues on that, his place in this party, his health and U.S. policy on the war in Gaza. That's Tuesday on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
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