SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The government is back open after a 43-day shutdown, the longest in U.S. history. But that wasn't the only story in politics this week. House Democrats released more files related to Jeffrey Epstein, and consumers still seem concerned about high prices. It's been a busy week, so we have invited senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro as well as White House correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben on. Nice to talk to both of you again. How's it going?
DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN, BYLINE: Great. Good to talk to you.
DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: Great to be with you, Scott.
DETROW: Domenico, let me start with you. Last week, we were talking about all the ways Democrats were winning. People in the party seemed excited. This week, Democrats are mad about the vote to end the shutdown. Is that as dramatic as a reversal as it seems?
MONTANARO: Well, it's certainly a lot of whiplash for Democrats. I mean, progressives feel let down by the party again. It's yet another time when they feel steamrolled by leadership. But it's not all doom and gloom for the party coming out of the shutdown with really nothing to show for it. They elevated the issue of health care as a major issue, and that's forcing Republicans on the defensive here. And coming off Democrats' sweeping victories earlier this month in the off-year elections, affordability was the big issue there. So Democrats clearly now have these two issues to run on, especially if Republicans in Congress block the extension of health care subsidies in this promised vote that could take place next month.
KURTZLEBEN: And if those subsidies are blocked, there would be real consequences beyond partisan politics. Insurance premiums could go super high for people in those ACA marketplaces if they lose their subsidies. According to KFF, a nonprofit health policy think tank, premiums could go up by 114% on average, so that's more than double. That is hundreds of dollars a month for some people, and that is money they could be spending on rent or groceries or gas money.
DETROW: I mean, that is notable. It's only been a few days since that vote, but it kind of seems like the White House is trying to move on from the shutdown already. Is that fair?
KURTZLEBEN: Yeah, and trying is the operative word there. But really, all of Washington is moving on from the shutdown, but for different reasons. Now, the White House, for its part, they seem totally fine to keep talking about the shutdown. Vice President JD Vance talked quite a bit about it on Fox News last night, and he was delivering the message we've been hearing from the White House for weeks, which is the Democrats caused this, and now they've caved, so this all happened for nothing.
But now you have two things happening that are nudging the White House past all of this. One is that Trump's approval, especially on the economy, has been falling and is still falling. And two, House Democrats released those Jeffrey Epstein emails that just look really bad for the president. One of them, for example, says that Trump, quote, "knew about the girls." Now, this raises the perennial question about the relationship between Trump and Epstein. What exactly was the nature of their relationship, and what did Trump know?
DETROW: Domenico, walk us through a little more about what were in these files and how all of this affects Trump politically.
MONTANARO: Well, I mean, look, we've always said that Trump has a high floor and a low ceiling when it comes to his approval ratings. You know, this is unlikely to be the thing that has Trump's base abandon him. You know, that hasn't happened with any number of controversies over the decade that Trump has been on the political scene, but this does keep the pressure on Trump, something Democrats are happy to do. It's irritating for Trump. He doesn't want to talk about it. Any day Trump is having to talk about Epstein really is a bad day for him and the White House.
Trump is reverting to a typical playbook here, calling it a Democratic hoax. But let's remember, he promised to release these files during the 2024 presidential campaign, and when a big part of his base believes this conspiracy that there's a cabal of high-powered people who are pedophiles in the government, then this is not something Trump wants to have to be talking about or explaining away. He wants it to go away, but the drip drip drip makes it hard to do that.
DETROW: But it's a lot of drip drip drip, and it is incredibly hard to keep track of.
KURTZLEBEN: Yeah. So to be super clear on all of this, what was released this week by Congress was not the Epstein files we keep talking about. The DOJ has those, and the House still has to vote on releasing those. But even if they do, the Senate might not even take it up. And if they do, it's almost certain they'll vote it down. And even if they didn't, the president could veto it. Now, given all of that, you might ask why there's so much attention on this vote. Well, part of it is that attention has just been snowballing during the long wait for the House to even vote on this, not to mention given how hard the White House is fighting it. But on a basic human level, there were very real victims of Jeffrey Epstein, and they're fighting for this, and sympathizing with them isn't partisan.
DETROW: All of this is happening at a time the White House is trying to talk about affordability. We noted earlier that Trump's approval on this issue is not great. Danielle, have they made any headway with that message?
KURTZLEBEN: Well, that's going to remain to be seen. For now they are talking once again about trade and tariffs. They announced on Thursday, for example, some frameworks of trade deals that they're going to work out with some Latin American countries. Now, a framework means nothing is implemented yet, but it's in the White House's interest to show they're doing things, so they're sure talking about it.
Now, tariffs have raised the price on some groceries, and Americans are feeling it. So what the White House is saying they're doing is they're removing tariffs on some goods that can't be grown in the U.S., like coffee and bananas. So the White House would, by removing those tariffs, be lowering prices that they themselves helped to increase. And also the White House will likely be trying to announce more trade moves before the Supreme Court rules on whether a bunch of their tariffs are even lawful.
MONTANARO: Look, affordability is probably going to be the big issue for next year, and if it continues to be the main issue, that's good for Democrats since Republicans are in charge. And that's an ironic twist considering it's exactly the issue that hurt former President Biden and Democrats in the last years of his presidency and in the 2024 election.
DETROW: That is NPR's Domenico Montanaro and Danielle Kurtzleben. Thanks to both of you.
MONTANARO: Thank you.
KURTZLEBEN: Thanks, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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