MILES PARKS, HOST:
It seems like a new scandal emerges in the world of politics every day - I mean, maybe every hour. But can scandals also reveal deeper truths about our politics? On the podcast Scandalized from member station Boise State Public Radio, hosts Charlie Hunt and Jaci Kettler get into some of these salacious stories. Both are self-proclaimed gossips and associate professors of political science at Boise State University. They join me now. Hi, guys.
CHARLIE HUNT, BYLINE: Thanks, Miles.
JACI KETTLER, BYLINE: Hey.
PARKS: Yeah, thanks for being here. So I want to start with a scandal that, in my mind, is maybe top 10 of this century. In June of 2009, South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford went missing. Many of our listeners are going to be like, oh, yes, I remember that. It turned out that the reason he was gone was pretty salacious. What made you all want to dig into this specific scandal?
KETTLER: This was also one of our favorites that we always wanted to focus on because, you know, it seems like a classic sex scandal, but there's so much more to it. And it's shocking to have the sitting governor just disappear. And Sanford's disappearance created a lot of confusion since he apparently didn't let anyone know where he was going. So staff ended up giving conflicting statements about his whereabouts, eventually resulting in the infamous and inaccurate explanation that he was hiking the Appalachian Trail.
Well, it turned out that Sanford was actually in Argentina visiting the woman he was having an affair with. And while that detail is probably what most people remember about the scandal, there are also serious questions about possible misuse of public funds and what would happen if there was an emergency. To his credit, upon his return to South Carolina, Sanford apologized and admitted to everything, but he had widely been viewed as a potential contender for the 2012 presidential election. And while he didn't have to resign as governor, that definitely ended his presidential chances at that time.
PARKS: Yeah. I kind of feel like it was a little bit the good old days in terms of the idea of an apology, even right now, I feel like it's kind of foreign in the world of politics. But...
HUNT: Yeah.
PARKS: ...This scandal did happen, you know, roughly 15 years ago, during the first year of the Obama administration. What else has changed about our politics since then?
HUNT: Yeah, I think quite a bit has. You know, for one thing, the media environment, as your listeners will know, has shifted enormously, with social media and sort of constant attention on individual politicians. That sort of gives voters more information about politicians' behavior than they ever had before and probably than they ever wanted to have. And there's also sort of this growing focus on forms of corruption that are actually legal and embedded in the system. You know, I'm thinking of things like the massive amount of money in our politics or members of Congress trading stocks in industries that they regulate. These are both things we've covered on the podcast.
And I think as a result of this, trust in government has totally cratered in recent years. A lot of Americans, frankly, assume that most politicians are just inherently corrupt. And, you know, every new scandal that emerges just confirms these beliefs. And so it's kind of a vicious cycle that, I think, makes even serious scandals, even more serious than the Sanford example, feel just unsurprising and routine.
PARKS: It also feels like the country is just unbelievably polarized right now. Does that play into how the country kind of takes in these scandals?
HUNT: Yeah. And I think all of this, Miles, is compounded by political polarization - right? - among politicians, among the voters. Basically, the more polarized and distant from each other that the two parties get, the more we kind of see the other side as different from us, as an enemy, and the more likely we are to engage in this kind of moral relativism about how we view scandals. So, you know, the political figures we like, we identify with, they get the benefit of the doubt, or we can explain it away. And then the opponents are sort of presumed guilty almost no matter what the facts say.
PARKS: It does feel impossible to talk about political scandals without talking about the current U.S. president. I mean, President Trump is somebody who overcame - I'm just thinking of one - you know, hush money payments to a porn star to return to the White House, for instance. And that is one of, like I said, many other things. You did do an episode in your most recent season called "The Elephant In The Oval Office." Considering all of the different sort of scandals that Trump has been associated with, what did you end up focusing on?
KETTLER: Yeah, it was a little hard to kind of narrow our focus there. But, you know, in his first term, there were real concerns about his and his family's business entanglements. But the second term has seemingly taken this to a whole new level, particularly with Trump's embrace of cryptocurrency. He's done a complete 180 on crypto in the last few years and has resulted in even his promotion of a Trump meme coin right before his inauguration, which has made him at least $300 million this year. So this is part of a bigger and questionable intermingling of the tech industry, as well, with the administration. For example, we've seen the front-row seats that tech CEOs got as inauguration or donations for the new White House ballroom. You know, these all raise concerns about if - how Trump is personally benefiting from the office, as well as industries like the tech industry getting special treatment.
HUNT: And I think, also, it's - you know, it's not even just these corrupt actions, which, you know, we could go on - right? - with this last year of the administration, but how they're getting away with them. So, you know, for example, this administration is much more willing than in the first term to use the legal system to kind of go after opponents or individuals who have tried to hold Trump accountable. And then on the flip side, Trump has really used the presidential pardon power in ways that I think it's safe to say the framers probably did not intend, you know, whether it's the pardon of the January 6 rioters or more recently, sort of to Jaci's point, of a major crypto billionaire. The idea here is - right? - that if you go against him, you're going to get the book thrown at you. You're going to get massive punishment. But if you help him or cover up for him, then maybe you're just off the hook.
PARKS: That's political scientists Charlie Hunt and Jaci Kettler. They host the podcast Scandalized, which you can listen to anywhere you get your NPR network podcasts. Thanks to you both.
HUNT: Thank you, Miles.
KETTLER: Thanks.
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