SARAH MCCAMMON, HOST:
We all have those movies that we weren't allowed to watch as a kid. Maybe they were too violent, too sexy or full of swear words that Mom and Dad did not want us repeating around the house. So on this week's movie segment, we're going to talk about those forbidden films and whether or not they live up to their allure when we see them later. Joining me now are ALL THINGS CONSIDERED producer Avery Keatley and Weekend Edition producer Ryan Benk. Welcome to both of you.
AVERY KEATLEY, BYLINE: Hey, Sarah.
RYAN BENK, BYLINE: Hey there.
MCCAMMON: So I've gathered you here because I understand we all had kind of similar backgrounds in our upbringings - a lot of rules about what we could and could not watch, right?
BENK: This is true.
KEATLEY: Yeah.
MCCAMMON: So Avery, I'm going to start with you. What kinds of films were off-limits in your household?
KEATLEY: Yeah, I would say the general rules were some of the things you mentioned in the intro, right? Anything that was too scary, too sexy, too gory - those were automatic outs. But also something that my parents were really concerned about was witchcraft. I was growing up in the mid-'90s, early 2000s, and there was this, like, kind of big boom of interest in, like, wicca and witchcraft, and that generated a lot of fear in the evangelical circles that I grew up in.
MCCAMMON: "Harry Potter" books.
KEATLEY: Exactly, yeah. So - but I mean, this even applied for us to, like, some Disney movies. So, for example, I wasn't allowed to watch "Pocahontas" because, if you remember, Grandmother Willow - she's the, like, sage wise woman tree that gives Pocahontas advice, like, mystical advice.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "POCAHONTAS")
LINDA HUNT: (As Grandmother Willow) Hello, John Smith.
MEL GIBSON: (As John Smith) Pocahontas, that tree is talking to me.
IRENE BEDARD: (As Pocahontas) Then you should talk back.
KEATLEY: So things like that - right? - this kind of - like, anything that had, like, a spiritual aspect that didn't sort of align with, like, mainstream Christian values, I would say, was pretty suspect. But then, of course, as you mentioned - right? - "Harry Potter" was taking a lot of heat in evangelical circles, and I think it was just a really easy thing to say no to because it had, like, witchcraft basically in the title.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HARRY POTTER AND THE SORCERER'S STONE")
ROBBIE COLTRANE: (As Hagrid) You're a wizard, Harry.
DANIEL RADCLIFFE: (As Harry Potter) I'm a what?
COLTRANE: (As Hagrid) A wizard - and a thumping good one, I'd wager, once you're trained up a little.
RADCLIFFE: (As Harry Potter) No.
KEATLEY: It was really obvious what it was about, you know, and...
BENK: (Laughter) There's no hiding that one.
KEATLEY: (Laughter) Like, it's about witches and wizards, sorcery, and that was just, like, a big no-no.
MCCAMMON: Did you ever go back and watch any of those when you were older?
KEATLEY: Yeah, so I remember watching "Pocahontas" with some friends. It's, like, one of my favorite Disney movies now. I absolutely love it.
MCCAMMON: See what happens when you censor something?
KEATLEY: (Laughter) Right. And then "Harry Potter," you know, it was kind of interesting. Like, my parents kind of came around on that one, I think, in some ways because it was so ubiquitous. And they eventually ended up, like, really enjoying the series because it's - you know, it's a really solid story - right? - at its heart.
MCCAMMON: OK, what about you, Ryan? What did your parents forbid, or try to forbid at least, in your house?
BENK: Well, you know, it's funny 'cause I had a little bit of a house divided. My mom was not really as strict. She kind of was more laissez-faire on what was allowed. But my dad kind of filled in the gaps there. He was much more strict, just from a very religious background. His side of the family was Pentecostal. Oddly, though, violence was mostly OK, but sex was really what he had a problem with. And I remember specifically an experience of going to Blockbuster and renting the movie "Big Daddy" because it had Adam Sandler in it, and it was supposed to be a funny comedy. And when we got home...
MCCAMMON: It's about parenting, right?
BENK: Yes, and it's about parenting, right?
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BIG DADDY")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As Julian "Frankenstein" McGrath) I have to go to the bathroom.
ADAM SANDLER: (As Sonny Koufax) You what? We're going to be there in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As Julian "Frankenstein" McGrath) I've got to go now.
SANDLER: (As Sonny Koufax) Hey, didn't you pee enough in bed already?
BENK: We got home, and we started the movie. At the very beginning of the movie, there is the kiss between two men, and that was the end of that. I remember my dad shutting it off. But at the same time, it was funny is that he had no problem with this kind of, like, blood-soaked colonial violence of Mel Gibson's "The Patriot."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE PATRIOT")
JOEY D VIEIRA: (As Peter Howard) We are citizens of an American nation, and our rights are being threatened by a tyrant 3,000 miles away.
GIBSON: (As Benjamin Martin) Would you tell me, please, Mr. Howard, why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants 1 mile away?
BENK: Honestly, these days, I'm more offended about the movie's historical inaccuracies, but that's completely different conversation.
MCCAMMON: (Laughter).
BENK: I will say the only caveat for the permissibility of violence was that the violence in something that seemed silly like "Die Hard" or something pseudohistorical like "The Patriot" was fine. But man, did they have a problem with slashers and anything gay. And wouldn't you know it? I ended up being a gay scream queen.
(LAUGHTER)
BENK: So I don't really know...
MCCAMMON: See?
BENK: ...If that had the intended purpose. Listen, I should also mention my dad is much better these days. I've been out and openly gay for a long time, and I think he really was trying his best with the tools that he had available to him.
MCCAMMON: I get that. You know, and it's funny you talk about the distinction between, like, sex and violence, and there was some of that in my household. And I'm a bit of an earlier vintage than either of you.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCAMMON: So I was a child in the '80s and '90s in an evangelical household, and there was definitely a huge taboo around sex - no sex scenes. I remember my parents...
KEATLEY: Yeah.
MCCAMMON: ...Going to see "Sleepless In Seattle" and, like, coming home and being like, yeah, it was kind of a nice movie, but, like, I don't know. They were in bed together and they weren't married.
BENK: (Laughter).
MCCAMMON: And, like, if you've seen that, there's not, like, even a sex scene. They were just literally in bed together.
BENK: Right.
KEATLEY: Right. There's the implication, for sure.
MCCAMMON: The implication.
KEATLEY: Yeah (laughter).
MCCAMMON: Yeah.
KEATLEY: I feel like there was - like, there were rules, but every rule had, like, a laundry list of caveats to it, at least in my house.
BENK: Yeah, same.
MCCAMMON: Ryan, were there things that you watched later when you got older that maybe you were prohibited from as a kid?
BENK: I ended up going crazy watching all the horror classics with friends that had lenient parents or finding ways to break the parental lock code on the cable box to flip on HBO.
KEATLEY: Such a rebel.
MCCAMMON: Ooh, devious.
KEATLEY: Yeah, wow.
BENK: Let me tell you. I still remember the password. And some of it really wasn't worth the trouble I got into after being caught. But hey, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of it really just kind of added to my overall love of film, so...
MCCAMMON: You know, on that note, I think we've all sort of indicated that, you know, maybe we see some of those rules differently as adults than we did as kids. And I - as a parent, I definitely do because, one, parenting is way harder than it looks when you're a kid. And, you know, it's tough - right? - especially in today's culture where there's - so much entertainment is so ubiquitous, not just movies. And it's tough to say no sometimes, and it's tough to decide when to say no because, you know, you could have the same conversation every day. Do either of you think your parents, you know, might have had a bit of a point, I guess, in saying no to some of these films when you were younger?
KEATLEY: I think my parents were genuinely trying to make their best decisions about what was good for us to watch and what, you know, they didn't feel like we were old enough to watch yet. But also, my parents were really early adopters of Netflix, back in the days when they mailed DVDs to your house.
BENK: Yep.
KEATLEY: And it was great because they really wanted us to, like, watch a lot of film, things like "Maltese Falcon," "North By Northwest." You know, they took us to see the original "War Of The Worlds" at the second-run cinema in my town. I mean, they did a lot to, like, give us a really strong film education, and in many ways, like, I think they shaped my movie viewing in that way. So I think for me, you know, they set these limits, but they also really instilled a love of film.
BENK: Yeah. And look, I have to say, while I agree with Avery in that, you know, I think my dad specifically was really trying his best - he was an immigrant. He was newly immigrated to the United States with a different culture and a different set of norms. But I think even the times that I would consider him making mistakes, he definitely saw the error in his own ways later on when it came to censoring things out of fear. And as I said, you know, we have a good relationship these days, and, you know, I think I have all of his support. But I still can't help but imagine how things could have been easier if, you know, maybe I was allowed more queer representation, for instance. Still, I have to be honest, my love of film, as Avery's was, is in large part a consequence of both my parents' insistence that I experienced things - artistic things, like, you know, "James Bond," "Indiana Jones," "Jaws," "Goodfellas." I'm grateful that despite some missteps, I still had a childhood filled with great movies.
MCCAMMON: That was NPR's Avery Keatley and Ryan Benk. Thanks to you both.
KEATLEY: Thanks, Sarah.
BENK: Thank you, Sarah.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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