LEILA FADEL, HOST:
We're going to be joined now by Eddie Glaude. He's a scholar and author. And, Eddie, you were coming of age as Jackson was running for president. What did he represent to you?
EDDIE GLAUDE: He was this extraordinary figure, larger than life. I was in 1984. I was there at the convention. I bumped into him in an elevator. I was 15 years old. He towered over me. And I just remember being in the convention, watching these conflicts, you know? I saw people boo, Jackson delegates boo Andrew Young and even Coretta Scott King. But he was representing the cross section, you know, as he put it, the desperate, the damned, the despised, the dismissed. And so he was this kind of progressive icon for me, a way of being authentically yourself and trying to find your voice in a moment where a country boy from Mississippi didn't think he could do that.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Why were the Jackson delegates booing Coretta Scott King? What was going on at that moment?
GLAUDE: Well, you know, I mean, this is insider politics. I mean, you know, Walter Mondale was running, you know, he was trying to. And, you know, of course, you had the DLC and the controversy around Gary Hart. Remember this like it was yesterday. And, you know, the Jackson delegates were like, you know, why are you supporting Andrew Young? And why are you supporting Walter Mondale? You should be supporting Jesse. And there was this intense, shall we say, back-and-forth in that moment.
But you have to remember, that '84 campaign was an insurgent campaign. It was the Rainbow Coalition. You know, Jesse Jackson was organizing coal miners in West Virginia, moving through Appalachia, not just simply Black folk in South Carolina and the like. And it was just this extraordinary, shall we say, grassroots, progressive effort that predates Bernie Sanders and the like. And so there was this, shall we say, conflict between Jesse's insurgent campaign and the powers that be in the Democratic Party.
FADEL: What did you learn from your interactions with him and witnessing him from 15 years old on?
GLAUDE: You know, what it means to be courageous in public. I mean, I learned a lot of what not to do, but I also learned what it meant to really stand on one's principles. You know, Jesse Jackson is so important culturally and politically. He changed the very ways in which the Democratic primary took place - right? - by changing the proportion of the delegates. Culturally, you know, people forget that, you know, Isabel Wilkerson was reporting in New York Times that Jesse Jackson and others had us change our ethnic identification from Black American to African American, right?
He was this figure who insisted on representing the voice of the least of these. We talk about that '88 convention where he talks about keep hope alive. But remember the last lines of the '84 convention - our time has come. We come from disgrace to amazing grace. Our time has come. Give me your tired, give me your poor, your huddled masses. And he means so much to me today because we lose this giant in the midst of a country that seems to be turning its back on the very thing he dedicated his life to.
FADEL: Now for both of you, Michel and for Eddie, looking back at this influential figure, you both interacted with him. Glaude, you were at the DNC in 1984 when Jackson spoke. What is the sort of takeaway of this legacy for each of you? I'll start with you, Michel.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
For me, I think it's the importance of showing up. As I mentioned in the story, he set up these picket lines for this reporter that maybe most people in the country did not know. But it was important. He would show up. I remember, during covering his campaign, there was often a lot of grumbling that he would show up at events late.
But part of the reason he was showing up at events late was that he was praying with someone. Someone would call him and say, my mother is in the hospital. Can you come and pray with me? And he would go. Someone would say, I need some encouragement or this person is in pain, or this person is in trouble. And he would show up. I think he stands for the importance of showing up.
FADEL: And Eddie?
GLAUDE: Speak truth to power. Be honest and authentic in how you move. And most of all, don't let your own sense of purpose and vocation get in the way of what you've been called to do.
FADEL: Eddie Glaude, distinguished professor at Princeton University's Department of African American Studies, and our own Michel Martin. Thank you to you both.
MARTIN: Thank you.
GLAUDE: Thank you.
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