SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
President Trump is declaring even higher tariffs today after many he'd ordered were ruled unconstitutional yesterday by the U.S. Supreme Court. This morning, the president said he's raising his new global 10% tariff announced yesterday to 15%, the maximum allowed by law. NPR's White House correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben joins us. Danielle, thanks so much for being with us.
DANIELLE KURTZLEBEN, BYLINE: Absolutely.
SIMON: President Trump posted on social media about the tariff increase. What did he say?
KURTZLEBEN: Well, like you said, after the ruling yesterday, he signed an executive order imposing 10% tariffs on the entire world. Well, today in a social media post, he said he's upping that to 15% after, quote, "a thorough, detailed and complete review," unquote, of the court's decision. Now, the Supreme Court had invalidated tariffs that he justified using a law called IEEPA, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. For this new tariff he's announcing, it's a different law. So the unpredictability continues.
SIMON: You were at the president's press briefing yesterday, after - shortly after the ruling. Safe to say he wasn't happy, was he?
KURTZLEBEN: No, he was furious. And what he said was - I mean, after thanking and congratulating the justices who did side with him, the other justices, he just laid into them, accusing them of being disloyal to the Constitution.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It's my opinion that the court has been swayed by foreign interests on a political movement that is far smaller than people would ever think. It's a small movement. I won by millions of votes. We won in a landslide.
KURTZLEBEN: So the president is accusing Supreme Court justices of being under the sway of foreign influences. Now, that's first of all, wild. And furthermore, when a reporter asked if he had evidence, the president said, you're going to find out. So he didn't even say what he meant. So, yeah, all in all, he was furious because, look, tariffs have been at the center of his economic policy and also just the center of his second term. And this is a blow to that.
SIMON: And how big a setback? Because tariffs are about more than just economics for the president in a way, aren't they?
KURTZLEBEN: Right, yeah. It's a both/and thing. They're about economics, but they're also about a whole bunch of other things. I mean, Trump constantly talks about tariffs as a fix for all sorts of economic problems, like bringing in revenue, foreign investment. Now, his promises haven't all borne out, mind you. I mean, Trump has said that tariffs would shrink the trade deficit. The latest data shows that hasn't really happened. But he also seems to like them for bigger reasons because tariffs have given him so much power. Trump had claimed he had the ability to impose tariffs when he wanted at the levels he wanted. And as the head of an economic superpower, that gave him so much leverage over other countries. And he used that with trade deals, with pharmaceutical pricing, even with diplomacy. And now he doesn't necessarily have that power anymore.
SIMON: He does have some tariff power - those 15% tariffs we mentioned. And he's hinted at more. What will he be able to do?
KURTZLEBEN: Well, he'll be able to use other laws, or at least he'll try to. He's imposing these new tariffs under a law known as Section 122, which allows a president to impose tariffs for up to a hundred fifty days. After that, Congress has to vote on it. In addition, some of the tariffs he's already imposed will stick around. They're - these are called Section 232 tariffs. They're the tariffs on things like steel and aluminum and cars. But then he also has cited a few other laws he says he can use to impose tariffs. These are all known by these three-digit numbers - 201, 301, 338. But the upshot is they all give the president some tariffing power. But the difference between those laws and the IEEPA tariffs that the court ruled illegal is that these other laws have restrictions. Some of them require investigations first, which can take weeks or months, or they have time limitations or just limits on the size of the tariff. So yes, he has options, but those options could also be limited in several ways.
SIMON: And, of course, polls tells us Americans are pretty pessimistic about the economy right now - concerned about the cost of living. How does that measure up with the president leaning so hard into using tariffs, which, after all, are a form of a tax?
KURTZLEBEN: That's right, and that's the big conflict Trump has made for himself here. He's been promoting these tariffs, which, like you said, they're a tax - they raise prices for everybody. At the same time that he's been trying to make the case that he cares about the cost of living, and most voters just don't think the tariffs have helped. Many say the opposite. So if he continues to lean hard into tariffs, that will really affect what political appetite the country has for Republicans in the midterms. And some congressional Republicans, after all, have come out against Trump's tariffs. So that conflict could intensify. So this just makes it remarkable that he's sticking to this policy. He could have used this ruling as an exit ramp, but he hasn't.
SIMON: Danielle Kurtzleben. Thanks so much.
KURTZLEBEN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
