LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Let's hear from someone who represented U.S. interests overseas for more than three decades. Nicholas Burns was the lead U.S. negotiator on Iran's nuclear program. He was the U.S. ambassador to NATO the only time the alliance invoked collective defense - in response to the 9/11 attacks. And he's now an international relations scholar at Harvard University. Ambassador Burns, welcome to the program, and good morning.
NICHOLAS BURNS: Good morning.
FADEL: Now, Vice President Vance will lead the U.S. delegation seeking a negotiated peace with Iran, but he doesn't have significant diplomatic experience in the Middle East. As an experienced diplomat yourself, what advice would you give him?
BURNS: Well, first, I hope that Vice President Vance and his delegation can succeed. We want the United States to be able to end the war, but on terms that are conducive to our interests. And I think the challenge here is that the negotiators are going to start a mile apart on most of the important issues. And we have a lot of experience with the Iranians. They're going to want to drag out these talks. They think that time is on their side, that they'll have more patience than President Trump will have. And they'll ask for all sorts of concessions - we've already seen this in the 10-point Iran plan - that President Trump and Vice President Vance are not going to be able to meet. The Iranians want us to end all U.S. sanctions. They want all U.S. troops to depart from the Middle East.
So I think that we'll have to expect long talks, and the U.S. is going to have to accomplish three big things. No. 1 - ensure Iran will never again have access to highly enriched uranium. That is a red line, and the White House is right to make it a red line. Two - prevent Iran from becoming the toll-keeper in the Strait of Hormuz. Right now the strait is closed...
FADEL: Yeah.
BURNS: ...Because the Iranians have effective control over it. They did not have that capacity, capability when the war began. They do now. And we've got to prevent the ongoing fighting in Lebanon from destroying this ceasefire. So this is a big moment. These are going to be tough talks ahead.
FADEL: Does this team have the type of experience needed, going into high-stakes talks like this with Iran?
BURNS: Well, you know, I think that - he is the vice president of the United States. He obviously speaks for the president. For a negotiator, that's important, so he goes in with that asset. I do think this. The Trump administration has sidelined our career experts on Iran and the Middle East and the United States Foreign Service. And, you know, when - just before the war began, when Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner had talks with the Iranian foreign minister, Araghchi, there were no career diplomats in the room. And I think that the Vance delegation, the vice president, would be very well-advised - talk to our career experts because you've got to understand Iran's negotiating behavior, what's happened in the past. You're negotiating in a different language here - Farsi and in English. And so I think sidelining the American Foreign Service has been a major mistake so far. I hope that they'll overturn that.
FADEL: Now, you mentioned compromises the U.S. should not make when it comes to enriched uranium and bases in the region. Are there certain compromises the U.S. should or could make?
BURNS: That all depends on Iran's negotiating behavior. You know, will the Iranians come to the table in Pakistan, Islamabad, with a degree of seriousness of purpose that they're willing to make compromises? I don't think Vice President Vance should make initial compromises up front. We'll have to - he'll have to feel them out. But certainly, we want a permanent ceasefire. We should want the fighting to end. We should want the Iranians to have no access to the highly enriched uranium, and they cannot be the controllers of the Strait of Hormuz. That would be a major crisis for the global economy. And in fact, if that's how the war does end - with Iran in control of the strait - that's a strategic defeat for the United States.
And so it's going to be - we're going to have to be patient. We're going to have to make our points. And I think President Trump would be well-advised to stop his war of words with NATO because one of the ways this war could end would be for the European countries, the Gulf Arab countries, to say they will help us police the Strait of Hormuz once there's a permanent end to the war. And the president's campaign to delegitimize NATO, to criticize NATO as cowards, I think, does not serve American interests at all. NATO's still a very, very important part of our alliance system worldwide.
FADEL: So does Iran come in with an arguably strong position, given its hold on the Strait of Hormuz? I mean, could these peace talks lead to a stronger Iran coming out on the other side?
BURNS: Well, it is ironic - the fact that, you know, our military has been so competent in destroying Iran's navy and air force and military industrial infrastructure, and yet Iran arrives at these talks in somewhat of a strong position because it survived. It has ballistic missiles. It has Shahed drones. It does control the Gulf. And all those proxy groups that Iran created - Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthi rebels in Yemen, the Shia militant groups in Iraq and Syria - they're all alive and kicking, too. So it's not as if the Iranians come weakened to this negotiation. In fact, they have some cards to play. That's why I think we've got to understand this may last more than two weeks, these negotiations. It could be weeks or even months before these problems are resolved.
FADEL: Has joining Israel in launching this war with Iran impacted U.S. safety at home and abroad?
BURNS: Well, the Iranians in the past have shown a capacity for terrorism far from Iran's shores. And so, of course, you know, our government has been on the lookout for that. So homeland security is a priority for us. Look, on the other hand, I think, you know, we had to do something, certainly a year ago, when President Trump struck at the Iranian nuclear sites, to degrade Iran's capacity there. So I think we've achieved our purposes in this war. It's time for the war to end. The president has been very clear about that. Can we now succeed at the negotiating table?
We need friends. We need the Japanese, the South Koreans, the NATO allies to be putting pressure on the Iranians from the sidelines as these talks begin. That's why we shouldn't have a go-it-alone mentality and why I think the president needs to be - have a bigger vision of creating a major coalition of countries that'll support him and support Vice President Vance at the negotiating table.
FADEL: So far, the attitude, though, has somewhat been go-it-alone. I mean, you were ambassador to NATO. You mentioned how this relationship is soured in the wake of this war. Does the president have NATO allies in this moment?
BURNS: He has antagonized our NATO allies. I was ambassador to NATO on 9/11. We invoked Article 5. They all came to our assistance in Afghanistan. We are stronger working with our allies than without them. I think that's the big course correction that President Trump needs to make.
FADEL: Veteran diplomat and former Ambassador Nicholas Burns. Thank you for your time.
BURNS: Thanks so much, Leila.
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